Sunday, November 7, 2010

This post is for Rule Experts: is the Banewolf really that good?

I played a game (gasp) against my buddy Christian on Sunday and things went pretty bad for him pretty quickly after I destroyed his entire Assault Squad AND Chaplain in one volley with a Squadron of 3 Banewolfs with poisonous attacks. Hold on: what?

OK is this really the correct way?

3 Banewolfs are in a squadron and all drive up to the assaultsquad with the Chaplain. They are on top of a building. They fire and automatically hit because of the flamer template. To wound models I only need a 2 plus (see IG codex). No save possible because the weapon is AP3. Did we forget a coversave or is that not allowed with the flamer template? Later on I did it on another squad out in the open and killed 7 Spacemarines in one go.
I mean, this is really cheesy. Now, I won't play that way again, but have I stumbled upon a loophole that the tourney players already discovered years ago and abandoned because it's so unfair?

I am curious if I misinterpreted the rules here.

Let me know!



  1. I run three bane wolves all of the time. I believe they fit in the theme of my army (Death Korps). As far as I can see you ran them correctly. If anything they are more cheesy than you describe. Mount a Multi Melta and a Heavy Stubber and you can move 12 and fire everything (Fast Vehicle, move flat out fire one main gun and all defensive). What I find with my regular opposition is that they get one opportunity to hit a target early game and then they are dead, either from the counter charge or from AT guns across the board.
    I also find my opposition looking for level three terrain where the flamer template cannot reach. So whilst they are superbad, they can be effectively countered.

  2. Yeah, it rocks marines, but if he's deploying infantry within 20" of it he's giving you those men. He should've immobilized them way early.

  3. Any legal tactic is valid. The idea of a game where players agree not to use a tactic is strange to me. It indicates a broken game.

    They must be aware of it. If there's no errata, then I'd run with it every time and win.

    If there's a counter, then the environment is self-correcting. If there's not, then the game is broken.

    David Sirlin talks about these things at length.

  4. Works very well in certain situations. Very poorly in others.

    Shake them, and they can't hurt you. Immobilize them and they can avoid them (or if in squadron, immob kills them). Not too hard to kill, but pretty much any damage result defangs them pretty fast. Anything in AV, even something like a Trukk, isn't afraid of the chem cannon, termies laugh at it, vs. hordes not really much scarier than a heavy flamer, stay spread out and can only hurt you so much.

    The first time you run into them they can be scary, after that shouldn't be.

  5. Also, a squadron of three is 390 points minimum. That kind of unit should be expected to devastate whatever it is DESIGNED to take down, and in the Banewolf's case it's obviously MEQs. Against a foot list the squadron will control the game to a degree, but it can and should be dealt with early through ranged antitank or refused flank/mobility. If none of those are options, then I'm afraid the foot list has a whole lot of other problems against any opponent.

  6. Like all single purpose units the Banewolf does its job well.

    15 Burna Boyz in a open topped Battle Wagon can do similarly horrible things to units by dropping 15 flamer templates on a target unit. Potentially they can flame only one guy and still kill half your unit.

    As other posters have said. It's tough to deal with the first time but there are plenty of ways to avoid having Banewolfs chew through your army.

    The easiest are to deploy on separate floors in a building or ride in a vehicle. An option available to most armies...

  7. Flame template equals no roll to hit and no cover saves.

    So yes: Banewolf vs anything not wearing T-armor means lot of dead guys.

    I wouldn't call the BWolf cheezy, because you:

    - don't need to deploy your stuff within its 12+8" range
    - don't need to move stuff into that range, unless they got immobilized already
    - can put stuff on different floors, which means the wolf can only kill the models on one floor
    - can shun from putting them on the ground or first floor. Ruin rules will tell you that flamer templates only work against targets at second floor or greater, if they are mounted on skimmer/jump/jetbike units.

    So unless you missed the ruins template rules and flamed him off the roof of a 2+ floor building, your play was 200% legit.

  8. Thanks for all the insights. Question:
    in the rules it says that the all vehicles in a squadron have to move at the same speed. Does that mean that if one get immobilised, the others can't keep going?
    Also, if they are allowed to move, can the immobilised act like an independent vehicle and shoot at different targets?

  9. See p. 64 about Squadrons, specifically the part about damage to squadrons. Immobilized=wrecked. One of the downsides.

  10. The three hellhound variants are great fun, but are in no way one size fits all. I've taken hellhounds to APOC and been left with no targets except MEQs... etc etc.

    I've lost 30 hormagaunts in a turn to 2 hellhounds with heavy flamers (ouchy) ... and devastated marines with the banewolf.

    My preferred builds are:

    Against Hordes (orks/guard/nids): Inferno, heavy flamer ... instant killing heavy weapon teams on a 2+.

    Against MEQs: Banewolf with heavy stubber and heavy bolter. Roll your banewolf kills first and then finish them off with the massed dakka.

    The devildig is seriously underrated - it's a great model and the meltacannon/multimelta is an awesome weapon - great for killing tanks and terminators.